[01:18] NATO and the Changing Landscape of Security
Rachael: I am so excited to welcome to the podcast, Juhani. He is the president and CEO of WithSecure.
Juhani: Thanks for having me.
Rachael: So, you've been having a great show. You've been talking, I mean, Finland's got a lot going on right now. I mean, how's your RSA been going so far?
Juhani: It's pretty good. It's certainly a blast, and I've [inaudible 00:01:37] compared to last year, in which they really, from COVID, a little bit, so I think this is, again, better. And there's more [inaudible 00:01:46]. I think people generally are happy to see each other.
Rachael: Exactly. Yes. It almost feels like the RSA's a bubble, right, when you come and sees your friends that you didn't see until the year before. So it's nice to kind of get that old feeling back finally.
Petko: It's funny, there's a lot of things on the RSA floor I saw in terms of not just AI, or ChatGPT, but some were talking about some of the things happening with Russia and what that means.
Rachael: Significant, yes.
Petko: At least in terms of advanced threats and how we can connect the digital to the kinetic. And that storytelling, you can kind of see a little bit on the floor. There's a little, almost a how do we get better from a threat standpoint, but at the same time how do we make it more efficient and outcome-based?
Petko: I mean, recently, we had some recent news, didn't we Rachael? That happened around Finland, and do you want to tell?
Unveiling Finland's Path to NATO
Rachael: Why? Go ahead. You tee it up, but I'm excited. April 4th.
Juhani: April 4th.
Rachael: We had a big event, yes.
Petko: So, NATO ended up getting some new members. It was Finland and Sweden.
Juhani: Sweden not yet.
Rachael: Sweden is pending.
Petko: Sweden is pending, oh, okay.
Rachael: Sweden is following.
Petko: There was a joint application.
Rachael: It was a joint application, right? Last year?
Juhani: Well, it was a joint intent, of joining at the same time.
Rachael: Got you, okay.
Juhani: And both countries had their independent applications. Finland's hoping to announce [inaudible 00:03:08] NATO.
Rachael: Yes, congratulations.
Juhani: Really hoping that Sweden will join us soon.
Rachael: Yes. There's a lot of history here too. I mean, I think there's probably a lot of people who aren't as steeped, right? My geographic knowledge, they're not as steeped in kind of the history of what got you up to this point. I mean, if you wouldn't mind sharing a little more backstory on that?
Juhani: Yes. So, of course, we are the country between Sweden and Russia, and historically we were part of Sweden until 1809. And we were autonomous from Russia until 1917, and Finland's independence stems from that point on, in 17. And I think as far as Finland goes, we'd be very good at actually taking advantage of big upheaval and changes in Russia.
So, Finland became independent as a byproduct of the Russian Revolution in 1917.
Finland’s NATO Journey: Seizing Opportunities and Facing Geopolitical Realities
Juhani: Finland became a member of the European community. We saw the opportunity with the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1992. Finland became a member in 1995, we completed our application in 1992. And now, Finland became a member of NATO after the Russian invasion and the war in Ukraine.
Rachael: Yes. So it's the 31st member state to NATO, yes?
Juhani: That's right.
Rachael: That's fantastic. I mean, we've talked a lot about the Ukraine conflict on this podcast, but I think we haven't really looked at it from the lens of Finland, and particularly the geographic proximity. I think your president was talking a little bit about that too when you joined NATO.
Petko: It's funny, I've been to Finland actually.
Rachael: Well, we have an office there, right?
Petko: I visited Helsinki. We've got a couple of hundred people there working, and it's an interesting mix. You've got the Swedish language, and you've got a lot of Russians there working there. You don't appreciate how close you are to Russia until you're there. And we're in San Francisco, but St. Petersburg, just for context here, is almost like being in LA. That's how close they are to Russia.
Rachael: That's crazy. I had no idea.
Juhani: Yes. I had no idea there were so many Russians there.
Rachael: That's awesome.
Petko: I don't know how you top that one.
Rachael: Yes, I know. Shutting it down, shutting it down. I mean, but it does give a little bit more kind of a charge, right?
Russia's Influence on Finland's NATO Perspective
Rachael: I mean, because there have been commentary I think, who was it from the Kremlin? It was Dmitry Peskov, I believe? Just kind of noting, right, that NATO's enlargement and kind of the rush of perspective of said action.
Juhani: Yes. I mean for a long time for Finland, we were talking about the NATO option, which for us basically meant we can apply if we choose to. And then what happened, this was a couple of months before Russia's attack on Ukraine. The Russian president kind of said that they don't look favorably on NATO expanding in their neighborhood. And that I think for the first time was kind of a clear change in rhetoric.
So before that, it had always been like, okay, Finland makes its own decisions, and that was the party line in Russia. But from that moment onwards, it was clear to everybody in Finland that things have changed.
And that led to a very rapid process where almost overnight the public opinion changed. People were not thinking that we would be joining NATO anytime soon. We were not thinking of using that option, as we called it. And all of a sudden we just had to move really, really quickly. And I would say that actually what happened was it was more like it was the topic leading the politicians, and not the other way around.
Even though, I have to say that both our president, parliament, and prime minister, all did a really good job in terms of the process itself and how it went. But we are very pleased to see the circumstances have changed, and this was important for Finland to become part of NATO and part of Article 5 and the collective defense.
[07:21] Strengthening Ukraine and Embracing NATO
Juhani: At the same time, I would hasten to add that actually Finland brings substantial military capability to NATO. We have one of the largest armies and have a conscripted army in Finland. We can probably have up to 900,000 reservists in Finland out of five and a half million people.
Rachael: That's significant.
Juhani: We have the biggest artillery in Europe, and I think we've learned a lot about going to war against Russia.
Petko: That's impressive. I mean, you don't realize the amount of capabilities you have to our neighbors up north right there. We're always focused on the big countries and how they're helping, but I think I read that Finland was actually already involved with some of the Ukraine part of it. Have you guys contributed to Ukraine?
Juhani: Yes, so Finland has contributed, I think it's entirely, it's about a billion dollar worth of equipment, we've been shipping over there. And of course, Finland is very vocally, very pro-Ukrainian. And frankly, many of us really feel strongly that Ukraine is fighting for freedom in Europe. It's fighting for other Europeans. It's not just an isolated conflict where Russia fights its neighbor.
I think it's actually almost a collective attack on Europe. Geographically, of course, Ukraine is already there, and politically, of course, they are not members of the EU or a member of NATO from [inaudible 00:08:54] perspective. And I think that having [inaudible 00:08:56] not surprisingly in joining both of them [inaudible 00:09:00].
Digital Defense Pioneers
Rachael: Absolutely, and it makes sense. And so you're here at RSA talking a little bit about what's going on, and I was lucky enough to see part of your presentation. And one of the things that you had mentioned about Finland having a key role in digital defense, and being able to bring that to the table as part of NATO membership.
Juhani: Yes, so we have actually good history in terms of bringing digital solutions [inaudible 00:09:28] and I think the biggest [inaudible 00:09:31] historically probably Nokia dominating the [inaudible 00:09:35] and sort of kind of reemerging as one of the two juggernauts of [inaudible 00:09:38] infrastructure globally. And of course, there's also a third vendor in China [inaudible 00:09:51]. For many conflicts, it's either Nokia or [inaudible 00:10:02] the options in the US, where we are.
Now, alongside Nokia of course, we had, after the success of Nokia there's been a strong undergrowth of companies that have evolved. It was almost like a business training ground for many people, and also in the recession [inaudible 00:10:25] many of these people who were kind of laid off actually kind of became entrepreneurs and [inaudible 00:10:33].
On top of that, of course, we've invested in cybersecurity, a number of the companies that have been in business for a long time. I mean, my company, has its roots with F-Secure. As of last year, we had [inaudible 00:10:49] consumers, WithSecure for Business, we go back maybe 30 years.
Finland's Post-NATO Membership Cybersecurity Landscape
Juhani: We are one of the original kind of founders of the first mobile [inaudible 00:11:01] on phones. And of course, [inaudible 00:11:03] mobile a natural [inaudible 00:11:08] working on cybersecurity [inaudible 00:11:10].
Rachael: That's fantastic, and so relevant today. I mean, we can't even talk about all the [inaudible 00:11:19]. Every time I get a text message I print it.
Rachael: And the TikTok, we won't talk about that.
Petko: For those of you on the podcast, there's a running joke with Rachael and her TikTok and cats.
Juhani: Oh, you are?
Rachael: I just, I can't. It's genius, the algorithm.
Juhani: Our most famous TikTok star is our soon-to-be former prime minister. I don't know if you followed her.
Juhani: Sanna Marin.
Rachael: Ooh. I mean I've heard of her, I remember I saw some articles.
Petko: See Rachael, you could be President of the United States, too.
Rachael: Well, there you go.
Petko: Just be a TikTok star first.
Rachael: I just, I'm not using this TikTok like I should. I'm taking but not giving. So one of my kind of favorite topics as we look at particularly the conflict in Ukraine and what we saw with standing up to these cyber crimes, if you will. You have all of these volunteers, on both sides, in terms of cyber attacks. And I'm just curious, now that you're part of NATO.
Finland, are you seeing now an influx of cyber risks and cyber-attacks directed towards the country or with the region?
Finland's Calculated Move Towards NATO
Juhani: So, yes and no. There have been, there had been some [inaudible 00:12:33] events and some of the political [inaudible 00:12:35] Parliament that their pages [inaudible 00:12:42] went down, and there were some [inaudible 00:12:56], forget which it was.
In general, I would say we've probably seen a bit less than maybe we could have expected. [inaudible 00:12:56], and I don't think realistically anybody would think that any kind of cyber security attack would have somehow [inaudible 00:13:08] to apply for NATO membership. I think the Russians are realistic and understand that, and I think that a long time ago [inaudible 00:13:17] Finland is in the NATO camp.
I mean, we've been training with NATO forces for many, many years. Our [inaudible 00:13:23] structures are already online, and so, in many ways, we were practically almost a NATO member, if not politically.
Petko: Just out of curiosity, what key factors drove Finland to really join NATO? You mentioned the population wanted it, but what are the real reasons?
Juhani: I think there was just a conclusion that security [inaudible 00:13:49]. Before that I think the Russian rhetoric was always Finland is free to decide whatever is good for Finland. Now there was a change. The Russian president said that, no, actually, it's not the [inaudible 00:14:04], we don't want our neighbors to become NATO members. [inaudible 00:14:08] there was a clear change in [inaudible 00:14:11], you know?
[14:13] The Impact of NATO Membership
Juhani: I think that was a big conclusion [inaudible 00:14:15]they said, okay. Now circumstances have changed, we need to take action, and it's a logical conclusion that we [inaudible 00:14:25] membership [inaudible 00:14:25].
Petko: I know Russia said some interesting things when Finland joined, joined with NATO, have you seen the relationship change, materially at the local level, in terms of you sharing a border?
Juhani: Yes, of course, Finland has a long border, it's 1340 kilometers.
Petko: So, 800 and something miles?
Juhani: Is that a problem? I would say that it's more of a problem than any kind of border. Anyway, so we have that border, and of course now that border is pretty much shut down. There's very, very limited traffic, because of the sanctions.
It's tough doing business with Russia, which historically of course had been one of it's trading partners. Fortunately, I would say, [inaudible 00:15:27] in Finland [inaudible 00:15:27]. Actually, you might say, Finland's biggest credit card, [inaudible 00:15:31].
Rachael: Wow, who knew?
Petko: That's very interesting. When I was in Finland, I saw a lot of local [inaudible 00:15:39] in Russian. Did you see any change in, when the Ukraine war started, did you see an influx of Russians going to Finland, or did it stay the same?
Juhani: Really, no. So, first of all, I think, we have a small [inaudible 00:15:51] of Russians. [inaudible 00:15:53] So, actually our biggest [inaudible 00:15:56].
Finland's Role in NATO and EU and Its Future Outlook
Juhani: I think there's been probably more integration after the Ukraine war in those other countries than Finland. I actually don't think [inaudible 00:16:20] in other places, and there was some legislation, also, that made it more difficult [inaudible 00:16:27] actually to immigrate and get into Finland.
Because, for natural reasons, I don't think there was an appetite for receiving other people who were, for example, putting the country [inaudible 00:16:38] and one who is not [inaudible 00:16:40], in Russia. Well, you didn't necessarily want people from [inaudible 00:16:44] for those reasons.
At the same time, we would try [inaudible 00:16:48] someone who has Russian [inaudible 00:16:51], we don't do criminal. [inaudible 00:16:54] Secure the airfare, like any other employee. And we're very careful to make sure that this [inaudible 00:17:00]. That is more of a [inaudible 00:17:05].
Petko: You're a NATO member, you were an EU before that, it's still kind of fresh. But do you see a relationship changing with other members of the EU and NATO as part of this membership? How do you see it evolving? How do you see NATO evolving into your role in NATO in the future?
Juhani: Yes, I think it was a couple of years ago, I think there were some people in Finland with NATO, a NATO member, and there was some discussion about the military capabilities of the EU. Finland was one of those components then that we should actually activate those kinds of its functions.
The Enigma of Cyber War
Juhani: I think there have actually been some countries who were quite active at the time, France being one of them, and the EU has a military staff. [inaudible 00:17:52] small [inaudible 00:17:53] structure, and some [inaudible 00:17:57] disposal, but I consider these, like NATO's, realistically it's NATO.
Of course, but remember that since the UK left European Union, it's still a part of NATO. [inaudible 00:18:11], and the UK at the moment, for example, is the biggest contributor of support in aerial arms, money, and training, with Ukraine by far. Much bigger than the next country. So, that a- [inaudible 00:18:26]. As a conclusion, in terms of NATO's importance, it is a [inaudible 00:18:31] structure of Europe.
Rachael: You know, one of my favorite questions I guess 'favorite' probably isn't a good word for it but, speaking of NATO. And also thinking about the UN, and invoking [inaudible 00:18:46], and all the things. It's that idea of cyber war. Right? And I would be curious about your perspective here. The UN, in particular, has struggled to define what does that mean. [inaudible 00:18:59] In defining it, well then you have to enforce said definition. So, it's a tough one
Juhani: Yes, and of course there are no borders on the internet, so I think it's kind of a [inaudible 00:19:08] to make an illegal [inaudible 00:19:14]. Where do you draw the line, and what can you do, when you're waging war on the internet?
The Complex Journey of Cyber Security Strategies
Juhani: I think that's a little bit what everybody's thinking. Of course, if you look at cyber, the approach most of the countries have taken has been more defensive than offensive.
Juhani: Certainly there are other countries that [inaudible 00:19:34] capabilities, as well, but it's easy to justify [inaudible 00:19:40] understand them. It's comparable, but it's a big step into actually starting to get [inaudible 00:19:51] offensive [inaudible 00:19:52].
Rachael: Exactly. What are the parameters? What are acceptable offensive parameters? It's a variable. You're doing something and other nations, they could get caught in the crossfire.
Juhani: Yes, [inaudible 00:20:07] defense of our country, because sometimes you need the offense as well. You need those capabilities to understand how to defend. In our company, we like to say that our defense is good for our hackers because we have these [inaudible 00:20:33] hackers in the world. They [inaudible 00:20:37].
Rachael: Yes, go ahead.
Petko: I was just thinking, I went through and got all of these certifications, and my product said it's secure. Not that I'm using it securely.
Rachael: That's so hilarious. It brings me another favorite topic, right now, and I don't know if this is coming to you, that's just been the 'de jour'. What's your perspective on that opportunity, but also the consumers?
[21:48] Unlocking the Power of AI
Juhani: Yes, so as a company, they've invested in [inaudible 00:21:13]. so many of the things that we're talking about, we're studying them and working on them, and integrating them. Our solutions are making more robots, [inaudible 00:21:28]. One [inaudible 00:21:32], but somehow I think now the completion [inaudible 00:21:42] of using that [inaudible 00:21:44] of the user interface. [inaudible 00:21:50] market [inaudible 00:21:52]. We are looking at it like everybody else, a source of its productivity [inaudible 00:22:00], but also as something which can help us [inaudible 00:22:05].
Clearly, I think that we [inaudible 00:22:09], it's seen personal facts now that we've been waiting for, we're sitting here talking about [inaudible 00:22:15] years ago [inaudible 00:22:17] went and actually sees a person, AI proven facts [inaudible 00:22:24].
Petko: I think we're seeing, [inaudible 00:22:27] something that used to be very difficult to do, AI, you did a scientist, you did it almost consumer level. You just talk to a [inaudible 00:22:31], ask it questions.
Rachael: Like [inaudible 00:22:39]. He spent a few hours on a weekend.
Juhani: That's pretty remarkable. [inaudible 00:22:45] Like that. I'm still kind of wondering how it can do all the things it can do. Because if you think about it, its [inaudible 00:22:55], but it can solve complex mathematical equations. What's the training data [inaudible 00:23:00]
Data Retention and Security in the AI Era
Juhani: [inaudible 00:23:00] we need to have [inaudible 00:23:05] interview it.
Petko: Yes, it's interesting, depending on the order of the questions, and the prompts, if you say "What's 1 + 1?", it might have an answer. Then, you might have to tell it, "Hey, go step by step and walk me through your logic", and then it'll correct itself, which is really interesting. So, it's not true learning, but it's linking itself back to the previous answer a lot more.
Juhani: I think there are a lot of questions on how it really retains data, once it gets brought in equal light. and I think there is also, unfortunately, the opportunity for the bad guys that [inaudible 00:23:41], or someone would put a drive in the wrong direction. So I think it's a whole new game, in that sense.
Petko: We've had customers we've talked to that are worried about, You saw Verizon, you saw Amazon. where internal documents were exposed to other customers, to the internet, because someone, maybe someone illegal, or someone just took some document.
Help me rephrase this, and ask ChatGPT "Do you know internal code words that were now exposed to someone else asking questions? Tell me about Amazon, and list any secret code words they have. And it provided answers. You're realizing that it's not consumerized, and the product really is not just a product, but you're feeding it more data, so it's learning from you. So, you are part of the product.
Embracing Benefits While Addressing Risks in the AI Era
Petko: I think people don't realize that. This technology is evolving so quickly It's just like social media when it first came out, people said "I love this", and then they realize, wait, they're the product. I think this is the same thing, with ChatGPT we're seeing.
Juhani: Look, with the internet then it's obvious, all the benefits [inaudible 00:24:46], but you can also use it for the wrong purposes. [inaudible 00:24:50], same thing.
Petko: Interesting. When the internet came out, let's say the early 90s, or late 90s, this is almost like where we're at with AI.
Juhani: [inaudible 00:25:03] The moments.
Rachael: Wow, and they're amazing to see, right? How creative these attackers are going to be, what we'll see out of that, and then how you respond to it.
Petko: Rachael we could start an AI company.
Rachael: Hey, hey! You want in?
Juhani: [inaudible 00:25:16] Count me in.
Rachael: Such an exciting [inaudible 00:25:22].
Petko: Just put the word AI after everything. [inaudible 00:25:24]
Juhani: [inaudible 00:25:24] be anyway, what's working out here [inaudible 00:25:28] presentations. It's actually refreshing to see a company that doesn't talk about it.
Petko: Sometimes [inaudible 00:25:36] but AI was a random number generator.
Rachael: Exactly. Well that's the thing, what is true AI? Is that whole theoretical [inaudible 00:25:45]? You saw everyone that signed that open letter, and let's take a pause. I mean, she's taking over the world, is that a true concern Juhani, or not?
The State of the Tech Market
Juhani: Well, I'm probably the wrong person to give predictions on that one, but I do think it is changing into something [inaudible 00:26:04]. It's [inaudible 00:26:08]
Juhani: [inaudible 00:26:13]
Petko: Yes, that's exactly it. It keeps life interesting. It keeps us learning, keeps evolving, and I think as long as we keep changing, we'll be happy. Because if we don't change, I think we get bored.
Juhani: So, look at Tiktok.
Rachael: Yes. Ah! Does your company have a Tiktok account?
Juhani: I don't think so.
Rachael: No, okay. We've been thinking about it, we've been thinking about it. So, what's on tap for you the rest of this week when you're in San Francisco?
Oh, it's usually [inaudible 00:26:47] several things. We meet with our contacts, we talk to bankers. We talk to [inaudible 00:26:55] companies, [inaudible 00:26:57] anything new and exciting. It's a combination. But of course, it is maybe more of a vendor show [inaudible 00:27:09] maybe a place for you [inaudible 00:27:09].
Rachael: Right, perfect.
Petko: We've got a lot of [inaudible 00:27:13] remains here. I mean it depends on a lot of variables. Maybe on the show floor, it's a lot of vendors, definitely.
Rachael: Yes, definitely.
Juhani: I think at the moment the sense I'm getting of [inaudible 00:27:25], the market is tense, a bit of confusion in the market at the moment. There is still growth in this industry, [inaudible 00:27:33], but at the same time, there's the big question of financing and growth.
[28:12] From Growth Obsession to Sustainable Success
Juhani: [inaudible 00:28:12] As you can see the national communities [inaudible 00:28:12]. So I think a little bit of that [inaudible 00:28:12] resulting in some companies skating a little back from their growth [inaudible 00:28:12], and spending a little bit less.
I think still a lot of our people are adjusting [inaudible 00:28:12], more important [inaudible 00:28:12].
Rachael: I think that's a fair assessment.
Petko: That's definitely for me. I know the industry's definitely shifted from growth beyond everything, and now they said, hold on, you have to actually make money. You have to have some profit margin. You can't just grow.
Juhani: Yes, even in the US you actually need to be profitable. Yes, it's amazing. It's a crazy idea.
Petko: We saw some companies that I think spent more than they actually made for the whole year. I mean, completely to the point where it was like, how do your expenses exceed everything? There is no profit margin.
Rachael: That's crazy.
Petko: Yes, so I think companies have to now evolve and say, look, I have to do a balance and be responsible for my growth.
Juhani: Be responsible.
Rachael: And that's hard, right? Because you need money to grow.
Juhani: Yes. I think it'll be a [inaudible 00:28:56]. Getting that good news is their defensive sector, they need us, I think they probably should be spending more on security than what they are at the moment. I truly say this as a vendor.
Empowering the Next Generation of Defenders
Petko: Well, Juhani, I saw a recent report, I think it was from one of the consulting firms. When you looked at all the projects that every company does, cyber security is the one that was the least likely to get canceled.
Petko: They'll cancel consulting, they'll cancel internal projects, but they're not canceling cyber security. So that's good for business.
Rachael: I'd be curious in Finland, you hear about this cyber town gap. Are you guys experiencing that, as well? What are you doing about it, how are you getting the younger generation to understand you don't have to be an engineer to be into cyber?
Juhani: Well first of all I think it's [inaudible 00:29:49], and of course, there is this addiction to people changing jobs and things like that, but it helps to know about inflation. So, when [inaudible 00:30:03] people are [inaudible 00:30:05] universe already, and a cyber threat, that is of course helping the companies themselves, like us, their own academies.
Rachael: Oh, fantastic.
Juhani: So that's where we send people. We're pretty big in the UK, second one [inaudible 00:30:22]. It's an ongoing event [inaudible 00:30:36]. It's a joint effort.
Rachael: It really is, yes. And everyone did a defense, [inaudible 00:30:48]? Right.
Navigating the Complex Cybersecurity Landscape
Juhani: [inaudible 00:30:52] They come to trade schools [inaudible 00:30:56]. It basically means that nobody can do it alone, and what [inaudible 00:30:58] got the means, [inaudible 00:30:58] actually have [inaudible 00:30:58]. It also means that it's hard to [inaudible 00:31:11]. [inaudible 00:31:19] really the flexibility [inaudible 00:31:26] a little [inaudible 00:31:27] in this [inaudible 00:31:29]. How do I get [inaudible 00:31:31]?
Petko: It kind of reminds me of the shared responsibility of the Modiful Cloud, they say, here's what we'll do, here's what you do. Then you forget, oh, I need people to do that also, and I need other technology vendors.
Juhani: Yes, the large companies, of course, they've taken [inaudible 00:31:47], they haven't [inaudible 00:32:07]. Things like that, and even in our case, have been [inaudible 00:32:07]. But then, our real volume from [inaudible 00:32:07], this is an underserved sector in cyber security, because there are all kinds of [inaudible 00:32:13].
Petko: I know a lot of them don't have the talent, what do you see them doing?
Juhani: So they [inaudible 00:32:21] companies like us.
Petko: Is it more like a managed service for them?
Juhani: So it's [inaudible 00:32:57], for example, our management section is responsible for [inaudible 00:32:57] based, complementing the security team, but not [inaudible 00:32:57]. Complementing the work they do through a partner channel team, so that we can actually provide more advanced services. [inaudible 00:32:57]
The Must-Attend Event for Frontline Insights and Cybersecurity Expertise
Rachael: Yes, that's huge [inaudible 00:32:57], is the [inaudible 00:32:57].
Juhani: Yes, I think so.
Rachael: What we do, and if you might have time because we are at RSA, we know you've got a lot going on, so, any final thoughts that you want to share with our listeners?
Juhani: Well, I would invite everybody to Finland.
Juhani: Where we have our biggest event of the year, this year. So ours is probably nothing compared to this, but I think it's sold out.
Petko: What time of the year is it?
Juhani: The 24th and 25th, it's called Sphere.
Rachael: Oh, I love it.
Juhani: We're actually generally talking about it. I'm sorry, May,it's in May. So we generally talk about interesting things, we don't just push on our consumers [inaudible 00:33:34] sweep them in. But primarily we attract people with having very interesting speakers like it might be somebody from [inaudible 00:33:43].
Petko: So if you want to hear straight from the front lines, go to Sphere, right?
Rachael: That's right, that's true. [inaudible 00:33:55]
Juhani: Yes, that'd be great. Make it happen.
Rachael: Wonderful. Well, Juhani, thank you so much for joining us, this has been wonderful!
Juhani: My pleasure.
Rachael: And to all of our listeners, Petko.
Petko: Be secure.
Rachael: That's right, be secure.
About Our Guest
Presently, Juhani Hintikka is President & Chief Executive Officer for WithSecure Corp. and President & Chief Executive Officer for F-Secure Cyber Security Services Oy (a subsidiary of WithSecure Corp.). He is also on the board of 5 other companies, including European Cyber Security Organisation (ECSO), Finnish Information Security Cluster (FISC), and Nordea. In his past career, Mr. Hintikka occupied the position of Chairman at Ficolo Oy, President & Chief Executive Officer for Comptel Oyj and Head-Operations Support Solutions Business at Nokia Siemens Networks Oy.